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	<title>Comments on: Finally, A Step Towards Permission-Based B2B Email Marketing</title>
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	<link>http://blog.bronto.com/2009/10/20/finally-a-step-towards-permission-based-b2b-email-marketing/</link>
	<description>Email marketing insights from Bronto Software</description>
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		<title>By: Lynn</title>
		<link>http://blog.bronto.com/2009/10/20/finally-a-step-towards-permission-based-b2b-email-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-4285</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 20:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bronto.com/?p=4479#comment-4285</guid>
		<description>I understand that my email addresses get picked up into databases, I just want an easy way to get opt out. It took forever to figure out how to opt out of Jigsaw, I was reccomended http://www.jigsawoptout.com now I get less SPAM from their advertisers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand that my email addresses get picked up into databases, I just want an easy way to get opt out. It took forever to figure out how to opt out of Jigsaw, I was reccomended <a href="http://www.jigsawoptout.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.jigsawoptout.com</a> now I get less SPAM from their advertisers.</p>
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		<title>By: Brass Ring</title>
		<link>http://blog.bronto.com/2009/10/20/finally-a-step-towards-permission-based-b2b-email-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-3552</link>
		<dc:creator>Brass Ring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bronto.com/?p=4479#comment-3552</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the post Julie. 

Actually, yes, Jigsaw has been sending emailing campaigns proactively and asking if people want to remove themselves for well over a year.  D&amp;B emulated this best practice FROM Jigsaw after D&amp;B started re-selling Jigsaw&#039;s data this summer.  

And, my point is that there is Acquisition/Prospecting marketing and then there is Retention marketing.  By definition, you can&#039;t have permission when Prospecting to a new prospect - in ANY channel.    And I was just highlighting that by comparison to all the other channels - ads, phone, tv, direct mail, ..... the respectable email providers like Jigsaw (and D&amp;B re-selling Jigsaw) and the others mentioned in my initial post are the best in class across all channel and all vehicles - yet they are the most maligned for being so.  

Further, it would be wonderful if everyone got to interpret the LAW differently to suit our own personal preferences around issues we feel strongly about - but I&#039;d hope we all agree that is just not the case nor should it be.  The laws are set, and following them - as well as DMA Article 39, the notice-to-opt-out emails being discussed here, etc, are also well established, and the Jigsaw&#039;s, D&amp;B&#039;s, InfoUSA&#039;s, Harte Hanks, etc. of the world follow them and follow them well, ethically, and responsibly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the post Julie. </p>
<p>Actually, yes, Jigsaw has been sending emailing campaigns proactively and asking if people want to remove themselves for well over a year.  D&amp;B emulated this best practice FROM Jigsaw after D&amp;B started re-selling Jigsaw&#8217;s data this summer.  </p>
<p>And, my point is that there is Acquisition/Prospecting marketing and then there is Retention marketing.  By definition, you can&#8217;t have permission when Prospecting to a new prospect &#8211; in ANY channel.    And I was just highlighting that by comparison to all the other channels &#8211; ads, phone, tv, direct mail, &#8230;.. the respectable email providers like Jigsaw (and D&amp;B re-selling Jigsaw) and the others mentioned in my initial post are the best in class across all channel and all vehicles &#8211; yet they are the most maligned for being so.  </p>
<p>Further, it would be wonderful if everyone got to interpret the LAW differently to suit our own personal preferences around issues we feel strongly about &#8211; but I&#8217;d hope we all agree that is just not the case nor should it be.  The laws are set, and following them &#8211; as well as DMA Article 39, the notice-to-opt-out emails being discussed here, etc, are also well established, and the Jigsaw&#8217;s, D&amp;B&#8217;s, InfoUSA&#8217;s, Harte Hanks, etc. of the world follow them and follow them well, ethically, and responsibly.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie Waite</title>
		<link>http://blog.bronto.com/2009/10/20/finally-a-step-towards-permission-based-b2b-email-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-3551</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie Waite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bronto.com/?p=4479#comment-3551</guid>
		<description>I think you misunderstand my intent of this post, Brass Ring. I am commending D&amp;B for their transparency and offering this opt-out option proactively, as opposed to my criticism of Jigsaw. To my knowledge (and correct me if I&#039;m wrong), Jigsaw does not send email campaigns asking people if they&#039;d like to remove themselves... but they do allow you to go to their site and opt out if you wish.

As a former marketer, I&#039;m well aware of these data providers and have purchased or rented lists from them in the past, mostly with mediocre to borderline disastrous results when used for email (like I said in my post, they can be great however, for direct mail and telemarketing). This is because permission IS a best practice for email, while it may not literally be part of the definition of CAN-SPAM compliance. We just heard this straight from the ISPs&#039; mouths at the recent MAAWG (Messaging Anti-Abuse Working Group) meeting... that appends, list purchases, bad co-reg are bad news. If the ISPs don&#039;t respect this practice, and they are the gatekeepers to your recipients&#039; inboxes, then it&#039;s time to pay attention to that and go above and beyond the basics of CAN-SPAM... both as a sign of respect for your subscribers, and for the integrity of your brand, company, and sender reputation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you misunderstand my intent of this post, Brass Ring. I am commending D&amp;B for their transparency and offering this opt-out option proactively, as opposed to my criticism of Jigsaw. To my knowledge (and correct me if I&#8217;m wrong), Jigsaw does not send email campaigns asking people if they&#8217;d like to remove themselves&#8230; but they do allow you to go to their site and opt out if you wish.</p>
<p>As a former marketer, I&#8217;m well aware of these data providers and have purchased or rented lists from them in the past, mostly with mediocre to borderline disastrous results when used for email (like I said in my post, they can be great however, for direct mail and telemarketing). This is because permission IS a best practice for email, while it may not literally be part of the definition of CAN-SPAM compliance. We just heard this straight from the ISPs&#8217; mouths at the recent MAAWG (Messaging Anti-Abuse Working Group) meeting&#8230; that appends, list purchases, bad co-reg are bad news. If the ISPs don&#8217;t respect this practice, and they are the gatekeepers to your recipients&#8217; inboxes, then it&#8217;s time to pay attention to that and go above and beyond the basics of CAN-SPAM&#8230; both as a sign of respect for your subscribers, and for the integrity of your brand, company, and sender reputation.</p>
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		<title>By: Brass Ring</title>
		<link>http://blog.bronto.com/2009/10/20/finally-a-step-towards-permission-based-b2b-email-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-3460</link>
		<dc:creator>Brass Ring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 01:13:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bronto.com/?p=4479#comment-3460</guid>
		<description>This ongoing zealotry is bordering on the whimsical.  

Permission is not required for Can Spam compliance.  The practice you mention above via D&amp;B is a long standing one.  D&amp;B does it.  Jigsaw does it.  InfoUSA does it.  The $1 billion list broker industry does it.  Harte Hanks does it.  Very highly reputable, public companies who are the gold standard at what they do, are doing the right thing by notifying recipients they are on the list and proactively giving them the opportunity to opt out.  Why do they do it?  BECAUSE IT&#039;S AN INDUSTRY STANDARD BEST PRACTICE THAT ALL THE LEGITIMATE DATA PROVIDERS FOLLOWK, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF LEGITIMATE, RESPONSIBLE, DIRECT MARKETERS WATCH FOR AND MAKE SURE THEY ONLY BUY OR RENT LISTS FROM LIST PROVIDERS WHO HAVE TAKEN STEPS LIKE THIS ONE. 

Jigsaw, for instance, not only does this email, they allow you to come to their site and no-questions-asked remove yourself from the database - that simple.   And unlike data providers, the only data on Jigsaw is what&#039;s put on the business card.  No personal or residential address, phone, or email data is ever compiled or offered.

The leading data providers are going above and beyond what the direct mailers or the telemarketers have EVER done on the Prospecting  / Lead Gen / Acquisition front.  

And the zealots would rather witch hunt and castigate them for being open, transparent, and proactive about notifying people they&#039;re on lists and giving them the opportunity to remove themselves rather than applaud this level of effort.

If it wasn&#039;t so ridiculous, it would be whimsical</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This ongoing zealotry is bordering on the whimsical.  </p>
<p>Permission is not required for Can Spam compliance.  The practice you mention above via D&amp;B is a long standing one.  D&amp;B does it.  Jigsaw does it.  InfoUSA does it.  The $1 billion list broker industry does it.  Harte Hanks does it.  Very highly reputable, public companies who are the gold standard at what they do, are doing the right thing by notifying recipients they are on the list and proactively giving them the opportunity to opt out.  Why do they do it?  BECAUSE IT&#8217;S AN INDUSTRY STANDARD BEST PRACTICE THAT ALL THE LEGITIMATE DATA PROVIDERS FOLLOWK, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF LEGITIMATE, RESPONSIBLE, DIRECT MARKETERS WATCH FOR AND MAKE SURE THEY ONLY BUY OR RENT LISTS FROM LIST PROVIDERS WHO HAVE TAKEN STEPS LIKE THIS ONE. </p>
<p>Jigsaw, for instance, not only does this email, they allow you to come to their site and no-questions-asked remove yourself from the database &#8211; that simple.   And unlike data providers, the only data on Jigsaw is what&#8217;s put on the business card.  No personal or residential address, phone, or email data is ever compiled or offered.</p>
<p>The leading data providers are going above and beyond what the direct mailers or the telemarketers have EVER done on the Prospecting  / Lead Gen / Acquisition front.  </p>
<p>And the zealots would rather witch hunt and castigate them for being open, transparent, and proactive about notifying people they&#8217;re on lists and giving them the opportunity to remove themselves rather than applaud this level of effort.</p>
<p>If it wasn&#8217;t so ridiculous, it would be whimsical</p>
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