Comments on: First Name Personalization – The Debate Continues http://blog.bronto.com/2008/09/24/first-name-personalization-the-debate-continues/ Email marketing insights from Bronto Software Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:12:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: big jason http://blog.bronto.com/2008/09/24/first-name-personalization-the-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-3245 big jason Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:45:05 +0000 http://blog.bronto.com/?p=995#comment-3245 @kelley i totally agree about "it depends" but this blog post starts out by going against that. can you show me research, data or anything about spammers (i.e. someone who has stolen your email address AND first name)? I still today cannot find anyone personally who has an email in their spam folder with first name in the subject line that is not from someone they have given it to originally. i'm sure it does happen because people buy bad lists all the time and mail them without permission. do you have a link to an isp discussing their algorithms in relation to first name personalization? even if it were so, response trumps deliverability. ie. case in point. worst deliverability of 1 email putting survey form within email but 75% greater response ever (like 3+ years ago from elabs case study). big jason @kelley

i totally agree about “it depends” but this blog post starts out by going against that.

can you show me research, data or anything about spammers (i.e. someone who has stolen your email address AND first name)? I still today cannot find anyone personally who has an email in their spam folder with first name in the subject line that is not from someone they have given it to originally. i’m sure it does happen because people buy bad lists all the time and mail them without permission.

do you have a link to an isp discussing their algorithms in relation to first name personalization?

even if it were so, response trumps deliverability. ie. case in point. worst deliverability of 1 email putting survey form within email but 75% greater response ever (like 3+ years ago from elabs case study).

big jason

]]> By: Kelly Lorenz http://blog.bronto.com/2008/09/24/first-name-personalization-the-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-3244 Kelly Lorenz Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:25:18 +0000 http://blog.bronto.com/?p=995#comment-3244 Jason, To be fair, the reason the answer to all email marketing questions is "it depends" (http://blog.bronto.com/2009/02/17/the-answer-to-all-email-marketing-questions-it-depends/), is because it really does. What works well for one marketer (first name personalization) does not, and will not, work for another. I think what's important to note for this particular case is that in the past, spammers did use first name personalization because it worked. It grabbed your attention and it potentially got you to open to find out who this person is that knows your name. ISPs got smart to this and started implementing some algorithms to combat spammers as they continue to do today with all the various methods spammers use to get in your inbox. I 100% agree with you that speculation /= the answer to the first name personalization debate. Testing does and should give you a clear answer for <i>your</i> business. -Kelly@Bronto Jason,

To be fair, the reason the answer to all email marketing questions is “it depends” (http://blog.bronto.com/2009/02/17/the-answer-to-all-email-marketing-questions-it-depends/), is because it really does. What works well for one marketer (first name personalization) does not, and will not, work for another.
I think what’s important to note for this particular case is that in the past, spammers did use first name personalization because it worked. It grabbed your attention and it potentially got you to open to find out who this person is that knows your name. ISPs got smart to this and started implementing some algorithms to combat spammers as they continue to do today with all the various methods spammers use to get in your inbox.
I 100% agree with you that speculation /= the answer to the first name personalization debate. Testing does and should give you a clear answer for your business.

-Kelly@Bronto

]]> By: big jason http://blog.bronto.com/2008/09/24/first-name-personalization-the-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-3235 big jason Sun, 27 Sep 2009 06:59:04 +0000 http://blog.bronto.com/?p=995#comment-3235 it seems like the basis of this post is just speculation and personal opinion. I look in my spam folder and there are zero emails using my first name that I have not signed up for at one time or another. so if I go off just speculation, all emails to me with the first name in the subject line are at least someone that I have given my first name to at one point and not some spammer who spidered my name and email. my first name in the subject doesn't really sway me one way or the other. it is how it used. it can help get my attention or not make a difference. but who cares what I think. more about response and results right? i could also speculate that as more and more people are throwing out marketing and just doing or not doing things just because they don't like something or mere speculation versus response, that I should just be different and use first name to stand out. ;) always a good topic dj. hope to see you soon big jason it seems like the basis of this post is just speculation and personal opinion. I look in my spam folder and there are zero emails using my first name that I have not signed up for at one time or another.

so if I go off just speculation, all emails to me with the first name in the subject line are at least someone that I have given my first name to at one point and not some spammer who spidered my name and email.

my first name in the subject doesn’t really sway me one way or the other. it is how it used. it can help get my attention or not make a difference.

but who cares what I think. more about response and results right?

i could also speculate that as more and more people are throwing out marketing and just doing or not doing things just because they don’t like something or mere speculation versus response, that I should just be different and use first name to stand out. ;)

always a good topic dj. hope to see you soon

big jason

]]> By: etoplum http://blog.bronto.com/2008/09/24/first-name-personalization-the-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-1518 etoplum Sat, 15 Nov 2008 09:01:29 +0000 http://blog.bronto.com/?p=995#comment-1518 I guess one way to look at it, is you are popular enough to be a target of some one trying to benefit from your name... I guess one way to look at it, is you are popular enough to be a target of some one trying to benefit from your name…

]]> By: DJ Waldow http://blog.bronto.com/2008/09/24/first-name-personalization-the-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-1392 DJ Waldow Thu, 02 Oct 2008 12:24:05 +0000 http://blog.bronto.com/?p=995#comment-1392 @Nancy: You make an excellent point. One of the lessons learned from this discussion on personalization is "know your audience." Thanks! @Jason: I could not agree more. I would counter your point however by saying that not all marketers send email to generate revenue (at least not directly). Sometimes it is about branding, education, etc. Again - overall, I agree with your comments. Thanks for sharing. On a related note...Dela Quist did some pretty interesting research on subject lines (length) - http://blog.emailexperience.org/2008/07/challenging_subject_line_lengt.html @Brian: I'm so so happy that y'all not only read the post/tweets, but actually took the next step to test. That is what it's all about. As I said to @Nancy above, I believe it is all about your audience. Know your subscribers. Segment and target them. Personalization *can* work....but it depends. Thanks again. dj @Nancy: You make an excellent point. One of the lessons learned from this discussion on personalization is “know your audience.” Thanks!

@Jason: I could not agree more. I would counter your point however by saying that not all marketers send email to generate revenue (at least not directly). Sometimes it is about branding, education, etc. Again – overall, I agree with your comments. Thanks for sharing.

On a related note…Dela Quist did some pretty interesting research on subject lines (length) – http://blog.emailexperience.org/2008/07/challenging_subject_line_lengt.html

@Brian: I’m so so happy that y’all not only read the post/tweets, but actually took the next step to test. That is what it’s all about. As I said to @Nancy above, I believe it is all about your audience. Know your subscribers. Segment and target them. Personalization *can* work….but it depends. Thanks again.

dj

]]> By: Brian http://blog.bronto.com/2008/09/24/first-name-personalization-the-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-1385 Brian Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:44:22 +0000 http://blog.bronto.com/?p=995#comment-1385 The results are in and I'm afraid you lost DJ... I'll email you and Julie a breakdown and some of my analysis as to why, but the the open rates on the "with username" subject lines clearly beat the "no username" send in 3 out of 4 messages to four different site user populations, and pulled a photo finish tie in the fourth. It's pretty compelling. I think OurStage will keep going with username personalization in the future. Brian The results are in and I’m afraid you lost DJ… I’ll email you and Julie a breakdown and some of my analysis as to why, but the the open rates on the “with username” subject lines clearly beat the “no username” send in 3 out of 4 messages to four different site user populations, and pulled a photo finish tie in the fourth. It’s pretty compelling. I think OurStage will keep going with username personalization in the future.

Brian

]]> By: Jason Billingsley http://blog.bronto.com/2008/09/24/first-name-personalization-the-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-1379 Jason Billingsley Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:19:00 +0000 http://blog.bronto.com/?p=995#comment-1379 I don't care what the open rate is, I don't care what the click rate is - just tell me how much revenue was generated from the email. Including a first name in the subject may get me curious about the content of the email, but who cares if it doesn't elicit an action? I don’t care what the open rate is, I don’t care what the click rate is – just tell me how much revenue was generated from the email.

Including a first name in the subject may get me curious about the content of the email, but who cares if it doesn’t elicit an action?

]]> By: Nancy http://blog.bronto.com/2008/09/24/first-name-personalization-the-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-1378 Nancy Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:17:04 +0000 http://blog.bronto.com/?p=995#comment-1378 I'm not likely to open something just because it has my first name. A large portion of our clientele are retired, and I've found the following rule has been the best to follow in both written and verbal communications: Always address with a title - Mr., Mrs., etc. Only use the familiarity of a first name when granted permission. I’m not likely to open something just because it has my first name. A large portion of our clientele are retired, and I’ve found the following rule has been the best to follow in both written and verbal communications: Always address with a title – Mr., Mrs., etc. Only use the familiarity of a first name when granted permission.

]]> By: DJ Waldow http://blog.bronto.com/2008/09/24/first-name-personalization-the-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-1376 DJ Waldow Thu, 25 Sep 2008 17:15:55 +0000 http://blog.bronto.com/?p=995#comment-1376 Wow. Great comments. I love the discussion - points/counterpoints. This stuff really gets me jazzed. @Robert - Yeah. It certainly matters campaign by campaign. Like anything else, I'm sure we can find cases where personalization leads to higher opens/clicks....whatever, but I still think that overall it is a bad idea. Also agree with "Different." @Ginny (from the Blog): I see your point. To me your comment on "fake personalizations" really hits home. Aren't they *all* fake unless they are one-off emails? @Brian - following your tweets. Can't wait to see the results of your "one-off" test! @Kyle - Holy great post. Loving the doteduguru blog. Just tweeted her out. Keep the comments coming! dj Wow. Great comments. I love the discussion – points/counterpoints. This stuff really gets me jazzed.

@Robert – Yeah. It certainly matters campaign by campaign. Like anything else, I’m sure we can find cases where personalization leads to higher opens/clicks….whatever, but I still think that overall it is a bad idea. Also agree with “Different.”

@Ginny (from the Blog): I see your point. To me your comment on “fake personalizations” really hits home. Aren’t they *all* fake unless they are one-off emails?

@Brian – following your tweets. Can’t wait to see the results of your “one-off” test!

@Kyle – Holy great post. Loving the doteduguru blog. Just tweeted her out.

Keep the comments coming!

dj

]]> By: Kyle James http://blog.bronto.com/2008/09/24/first-name-personalization-the-debate-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-1375 Kyle James Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:12:02 +0000 http://blog.bronto.com/?p=995#comment-1375 Just to throw it into the discussion here is another interesting post about <a href="http://doteduguru.com/id659-subject-line-customization-too-much-like-spam.html" rel="nofollow">Subject Line Customization</a>. What is interesting in this post is how it brings in other things besides just a First name into the equation to try to draw users to open a message. I think it's definitely worth a read as people attempt to understand the full complications of this subject that doesn't have a right or wrong answer. Just to throw it into the discussion here is another interesting post about Subject Line Customization.

What is interesting in this post is how it brings in other things besides just a First name into the equation to try to draw users to open a message. I think it’s definitely worth a read as people attempt to understand the full complications of this subject that doesn’t have a right or wrong answer.

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